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                         Apple II RoundTable
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                   Real Time Conference Transcript
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Guest    :   John Signa
         :   Orange Micro
Date     :   August 30, 1988

Copyright (C) 1988 GEnie                           All rights reserved
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<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> John Signa is A Product Development Engineer from Orange Micro.  His company develops and sells numerous cards and interfaces for the Apple II line.  They are probably one of the leading hardware add on companies that develop for the Apple II.  So without further delay, I would like to welcome John to the Apple II RTC and ask him to make an opening statement.

<[John] A2.GUEST> I started working with Orange Micro back in December in the Technical Support Group, and back in May was promoted to the Engineering Department, where I have been working with the Grappler C/Mac/GS and Grappler LQ firmware.  I've been working with Apple's since '76, so Orange Micro has been a joyful extension of the fun I've had with Apples in the past.  So before I get long winded, any questions?

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> Okay, I will start the questioning by asking if you can give a list and description of each of your products for the Apple II line.

<[John] A2.GUEST>  Okay, The grand-daddy of all of our interfaces is the Grappler+, a parallel printer interface for the Apple II (except IIc) computers, allowing a user to print the Hires screens without software.  A version for the ImageWriter is available also (the Serial Grappler+).  The Prograppler is an extension of the Grappler+, adding additional features for the Apple IIe and IIgs (access to screen dump features via pull-down menus), and again, it is for parallel printers.  If you have a IIgs and an Epson, Okidata 190, or Star parallel printer, then you could use the Grappler C/Mac/GS, which is a serial to parallel cable with the ability to translate ImageWriter codes into that of say an Epson, so that you could print from DeluxePaint (or any other ImageWriter specific program) on an Okidata or Epson.  Those are our II specific interfaces.  In addition, we have the Imagebuffer (a 64k buffer for the ImageWriter II), the RAMpak 4gs (RAM card for the IIgs), and the Juicebox (power switch/fan for the IIgs).  That's a quick overview.

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> What is the Grappler LQ, I have been hearing about? 
<[John] A2.GUEST> The Grappler LQ is related to the Grappler C/Mac/GS with two exceptions.   First, it is for 24 pin dot matrix printers and HP lasers, and second, it is currently only for the Macintosh.  It allows those printers to act like the ImageWriter LQ.  Apple IIgs support may be added at a later date, but is not connectable right now.

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> Once the Apple IIgs ImageWriter LQ Driver is released, will this then work with the IIgs?  Is the holdup, actually the ImageWriter LQ driver?

<[John] A2.GUEST> I have personally tested the Grappler LQ with the IIgs (using both an ImageWriter and ImageWriter LQ Driver) and have found some software that is incompatible (Printshop GS, to be specific).

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> That may be because Printshop GS does not use the standard drivers.

<[John] A2.GUEST> It is.  They are using one of the "other" Graphics modes and since we designed the product for the modes used in the Mac, the scaling is way off (only so much can fit into 4K of ROM).

<[Dave Z.] D.ZIEBARTH> More on the Grappler LQ for the GS.  Are there plans to move it to the GS?

<[John] A2.GUEST> Not for a while.  I've started to re-review the code to see what it would take, but right now we are in the process of updating the Grappler C/Mac/GS and releasing some new products for the Macintosh.

<[Dave Z.] D.ZIEBARTH> I see.  Well, I really like the product and wish it would work on the GS!

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> Ditto!

<[John] A2.GUEST> I'm pushing for it!  If we get enough requests, it may just happen.

<[Dave Z.] D.ZIEBARTH> Are there plans for any more Fonts for the Grappler LQ/Mac?

<[John] A2.GUEST> Bitstream (the creator of the original Fonts) are releasing some new fonts for the ImageWriter II, LQ and LaserWriter SC which should work for the Laser side of the LQ, as well.  We are in the process of seeing which fonts would be the most appealing to the greatest number of users.  LQ and Toshiba users have a harder time as they need fonts 2.5 times and there are very few overlaps on sizes with the standard font sizes.

<[A2RT Assist.] A2.VERN.R> Will your grappler devices allow GS specific programs to print on a C.Itoh 8510 (Prowriter) printer?

<[John] A2.GUEST> Glad you asked that.  I am currently adding C.Itoh 8510 (Prowriter) and IBM Proprinter support to the Grappler C/Mac/GS.  It should be available sometime in October.

<[A2RT Assist.] A2.VERN.R> Yeah, sounds great.

<[John] A2.GUEST> (There is some selfishness, as I have the NEC 8023, a C.Itoh in another case.)  Interesting note is that one of the earliest drivers for the LISA Computer was for the C.Itoh.

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> That's okay, the other week, Peter Sandys said that he was pushing the ImageWriter LQ driver for the IIgs, because he owns an ImageWriter LQ and wants to be able to us it with his IIgs.

<[Jerry] J.KINDALL> I've got an ImageBuffer (which, by the way, I like a lot) with 64K.  How much do the RAM chips to upgrade this baby to 12
8K cost?

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> We have been concentrating on the 256k and 1MB chips lately and have ignored the smaller chips.

<[John] A2.GUEST> I believe they're $28 for the 64k upgrade, but don't quote me on that.  (I left my price/specification sheets at the office.)

<[Jerry] J.KINDALL> Also, is there any particular reason why the printer still says 0KB of RAM when I perform the ImageWriter II self-test?  Is this a bug in the buffer or what?  The buffer works fine, it just doesn't print the size of the buffer.

<[Eric] E.MUELLER> I have the same question!

<[John] A2.GUEST> The answer, I was told by a former engineer, was that the ImageWriter isn't able to see the amount of RAM on a third party board.

<[Jerry] J.KINDALL> Is there a escape command or something I can send to clear the buffer?

<[John] A2.GUEST> No, unfortunately there isn't.  The only way to clear the buffer is to power down the ImageWriter.

<[Jerry] J.KINDALL> Oh well, that's not such a big deal, anyway.  I must say that I like the copy feature.

<[Eric] E.MUELLER> I'm getting a Mac SE in a few days!   John, I hear I can buy a "C/Mac/GS" interface and use a non-Apple printer with the Mac.  I've also heard that the process is not foolproof and some of the printers act "funny."  So, my question is, what printers can it use?

<[John] A2.GUEST> The Grappler C/Mac/GS supports (are you ready): Epson FX, LX, RX, MX, EX & JX, Okidata 192 & 292, and Star Micronix SG, SR, and 10x series printers and you are right in that some printers do act "funny."  The Mac ImageWriter driver really "drives" the ImageWriter hard, using most of its commands, reversing the paper feed, going forward, switching modes (elite, pica elite, etc) and when translated, the several printers have to "reset" their thinking, so to speak.  In addition, most of the printers do not have the ability to reverse linefeed (roll the paper backwards) and the ImageWriter driver uses that feature extensively.  In the last revision of the hardware, I cleared up almost all of that, but you can't make up 100% for features that a printer lacks.

<[Eric] E.MUELLER> Of those that you listed, which work the best with the Mac & C/Mac/GS?  Are there one or two that have all the features that the ImageWriter has (and the Mac uses)?

<[John] A2.GUEST> I personally used the Star NX10 (an Epson FX compatible) and have found it to be fairly good.  Speed-wise, the Okidata 192 & 292 are really fast.

<[Eric] E.MUELLER> AHA!  Super, I sell the NX10 at the computer store where I work.  Thank you very much.

<[HangTime] B.CAPLIN> My question was already answered (another way to flush the buffer).  So I'll just say that I, too, like the card [wish it had a flush lever], thanks for a good product.

<[Jerry] J.KINDALL> A letter in the latest issue of Open Apple from a disgruntled ImageBuffer user tells of his problems using the buffer.  It seems to dump certain pages of the document without printing them.  He says that he's been unable to get any help from Orange Micro, and that there seems to be very poor support.  Any comments?  (This is just something I thought I should ask about; I don't know the guy who wrote the letter or anything.)

<[John] A2.GUEST> In the early version of the Imagebuffer (ROM revision 1.0) there was a bug that caused the Imagebuffer to "drop" pages of a document when the buffer got full.  An updated ROM is available (version 1.1).

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> Sounds similar to something APPLIED ENGINEERING would do.

<[Jerry] J.KINDALL> So all he needs is a ROM update?  So, why was he unable to find this out by writing and calling?

<[John] A2.GUEST> I don't know on that one.  Did this happen recently?

<[Jerry] J.KINDALL> Yes, it's just in the September issue of Open-Apple.

<[John] A2.GUEST> I'll have to mention it to Tech Support.  In either case, if he could be referred to me personally at Orange Micro, I could take care of it.

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> Its the old story of who you know!

<[Jerry] J.KINDALL> Thanks.  I just thought I should mention that.  That's all.

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> Are there any products in the development stages for the Apple II line that you are at liberty to talk about?

<[John] A2.GUEST> Unfortunately, no.  I am the company's biggest II supporter, so I keep pushing.

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> Along that line, do you have any projections for the future of the Apple II line?  Do you see the Apple II Forever slogan being a truism?

<[John] A2.GUEST> Well, the impression I keep getting from Apple insiders is that the Apple II is being milked.  The Mac is where Apple is headed, and very little effort is being put into the II.

<[Jerry] J.KINDALL> (That's the impression we users get too!)

<[John] A2.GUEST> And it reflects in the developers as well.

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> Do you feel that there is still a chance to be able to change that?

<[John] A2.GUEST> That's a hard one.

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> I know, we face that issue every day!

<[John] A2.GUEST> With the II being an 8 bit machine, its getting harder and harder to compete with the bigger "WIMP"y toys.  The hope lies in the IIgs, but its not doing as well has Apple had hoped!

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> So, a billion dollars in sales is not enough for Apple?

<[John] A2.GUEST> I agree that that's a lot, but everyone not tied by job, says that the II is declining.

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> Do you think if the GS had some adequate speed, it might just sell more?

<[John] A2.GUEST> Faster speeds would definitely help.  At the same time, I don't think that is necessarily the answer.

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> Could the cause for the decline be attributed to Apple's laxity in support for the product?

<[John] A2.GUEST> Definitely yes.  Imagine if Apple actively pushed the Apple II (besides at Christmas); right now the Mac is advertised everywhere.

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> I have heard many developers complain that Apple is not providing adequate documentation for the product line.  Do you see this as a problem too?

<[John] A2.GUEST> Documentation has been very scarce in some cases.  For example, printer driver information was one of the last pieces of information to be released for the IIgs, and what was released was very thin indeed.

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> What do you perceive would be necessary to revive the Apple II line?

<[John] A2.GUEST> Marketing is definitely not my specialty, but first produce a low-end, low-priced CPU to appeal to the general masses (IIc-ish, but much cheaper).

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> Dennis Doms identified four areas that need to be improved for the Apple II to survive.  These four were, 1.  Marketing, 2. Documentation, 3. GSOS, and 4. speed.  Do you feel the same way on this issue?

<[RMacIntosh] REM> GSOS?

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> GSOS is the GS operating system, still not released.

<[John] A2.GUEST> Generalizing, yes.  Some of that will be addressed in the coming months though.

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> I agree, but 2 years without a native operating system is a let down.  I can see it causing frustration for users and developers alike.  Is this what you have experienced too?

<[John] A2.GUEST> The IIgs will eventually become a machine unto its own right.  Right now it is too confusing (do I want ProDOS 16, 8, or DOS 3.3, 5 1/4 or 3.5 drive etc).  I think that by unleashing the necessity to be Apple II compatible, it could really become a great (I mean really great) machine.

<[Mark] A2.MARK.C> My questions go back two years ago next week, during the unveiling of the GS shows for dealers, Users' groups, etc.  I remember Orange Micro offering two new products for the GS, and one for the Mac.  First, any chance that Ragtime might be ported over for the GS?  Secondly, didn't you guys show a video digitizer?

<[John] A2.GUEST> First, no, Ragtime will not be ported to the GS (at least not by Orange Micro.)  Orange Micro sold the distribution rights to Cricket software.

<[Mark] A2.MARK.C> DRAT!

<[John] A2.GUEST> Sorry.

<[John] A2.GUEST> Secondly, yes we were at one time working on a Video Grabber and a IBM PC emulator for the IIgs, but both projects were scrapped due to various reasons (mostly end user cost levels).

<[Mark] A2.MARK.C> DOUBLE DRAT!

<A2.VERN.R> I agree, DOUBLE DRAT!

<[Mark] A2.MARK.C> Sorry if I repeat a question, I just got here.  Other than Printer Interfaces and the RAMPac 4GS, is Orange Micro planning anything else for the GS?

<[John] A2.GUEST> No new products will be released.  Again, sorry.

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> Since no one else has any questions for John, John do you have any closing remarks?

<[John] A2.GUEST> No closing remarks, other than to add that if anyone should have any questions about specific products, they can reach sales at 800-223-8029, and Tech Support (for those that already have the product) at 714-779-2772.  The address is 1400 N. Lakeview Ave, Anaheim, CA 92807.

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> I would like to thank John Signa for being our guest tonight here on GEnie.  I wish him luck in supporting Apple II products and helping us push Apple to support it.

<[John] A2.GUEST> I've had a great time tonight.  And for those IIgs owners who wanted to hook up 24 pins, or any other II (or even Mac users) with requests, please feel free to write me at the above address as well.

<[Tyler] A2.TYLER> Next week, our guest will be Ford Johnson, Hardware Evangelist for Apple Computer, Inc.

Until then, stay well and have fun on GEnie.

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